Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2014 14:51:58 GMT -5
Let me preface this by saying the following:
I know I'm new and by no means do I know much about anything. I love this league (at first click) so I hope you take my suggestions as just that, suggestions and not me saying "I know what's best and I'm a jerk".
Any ways with that in mind these are my thoughts:
OBP instead of Avg - I have always been a big proponent of this being more reflective of quality hitters then Avg alone.
Get rid of HRs as a catagory - I think TBs already covers this in a more universally accurate way then trying chase HR hitters ( it is similar to just trying to chase Saves... see below...). TB awards power with out being overly specific to one catagory.
Combine Holds and Saves into one catagory - This is such a huge league however FA in the league is not the same as in other leagues so either you have a closer or you are out of luck. Holds and Saves on the other hand allows owners to have a better chance since setup players and 7th inning relief is typically found within the organization amd can be easily managed in season versus a all or nothing (hopefully I got one of the right guys who is a closer during offseason bidding) type format. However H+S STILL rewards those who picked correctly since having a "established closer" helps to rack up points in this catagory over someone just chasing holds. You still need to try to do both.
Then you suddenly have a 5x5 league. If for some reason we need a odd number of categories then try tracking Errors as a tie breaker type catagory.
But I don't see the need to force a catagory to make it 6x6 if unless I'm missing something (which I'm sure I am)...
Any ways I look forward to the many personal and hate filled comments that will be sure to follow my post. Again I cannot stress enough I love the league as is (except for the occasional stupid rule suggestion found in this forum).
JP
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saltman
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Post by saltman on Jun 1, 2014 7:02:41 GMT -5
These are reasonable suggestions however I would be wary of changing the scoring system - people having been making acquisitions, trades etc for nearly 2 years based on the current scoring system and so to change it would alter the value of certain types of players - power hitters and closers for example.
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phronesis
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Post by phronesis on Jun 1, 2014 11:09:51 GMT -5
I've said this before, but equalizing Holds and Saves isn't a good idea in my opinion. I could imagine somebody with 6 RP who accumulate Holds being a force, rather than having to actually battle it out in each category. Though this change might benefit me, specifically, I still like the idea of having a dominant Closer mean something (especially since I just made two trades this year to acquire dominant Closers!)
The TB idea is a good one, but HR and TB really aren't the same thing. Maybe it's a better gauge of 'power' in an absolute sense, but guys like Mark Reynolds and Adam Dunn lose some of their value. I think having HR opens the door to cheaper options having a fantasy impact...after all, they are one of the three true outcomes. TB is usually dominated by the BEST players IRL--I think Trout and McCutchen lead the league last year, and I assume the rest of the list is dominated by the best of the best. HR at least allows a role player to have an impact.
I'm for changing AVG to OBP. Completely. Not this year, maybe 2015, but definitely 2016 to give people a chance to change their strategy. Though I suspect most people wouldn't really change their strategy all that much. I mean, Choo becomes a monster instead of just a top 20 guy in a category. It would mitigate the 'chance' factor, which I'm all for, but there aren't many guys who would become more or less sought-after. Starlin Castro (and the like) loses a bit of value, but not much.
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saltman
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Post by saltman on Jun 1, 2014 11:44:28 GMT -5
I agree. And the example you give of having recently traded for 2 closers is an example of what I was meaning re. people having made moves based on current scoring system. I have no issue with switching to OBP though. Presumably no one is suggesting changing anything mid-season, this would all be for next season? I quite like having 2 extra categories compared with a 'normal' league, this is supposed to be a more in depth league after all
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miggitymatt
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Post by miggitymatt on Jun 1, 2014 12:37:38 GMT -5
I've said this before, but equalizing Holds and Saves isn't a good idea in my opinion. I could imagine somebody with 6 RP who accumulate Holds being a force, rather than having to actually battle it out in each category. Though this change might benefit me, specifically, I still like the idea of having a dominant Closer mean something (especially since I just made two trades this year to acquire dominant Closers!) The TB idea is a good one, but HR and TB really aren't the same thing. Maybe it's a better gauge of 'power' in an absolute sense, but guys like Mark Reynolds and Adam Dunn lose some of their value. I think having HR opens the door to cheaper options having a fantasy impact...after all, they are one of the three true outcomes. TB is usually dominated by the BEST players IRL--I think Trout and McCutchen lead the league last year, and I assume the rest of the list is dominated by the best of the best. HR at least allows a role player to have an impact. I'm for changing AVG to OBP. Completely. Not this year, maybe 2015, but definitely 2016 to give people a chance to change their strategy. Though I suspect most people wouldn't really change their strategy all that much. I mean, Choo becomes a monster instead of just a top 20 guy in a category. It would mitigate the 'chance' factor, which I'm all for, but there aren't many guys who would become more or less sought-after. Starlin Castro (and the like) loses a bit of value, but not much. Nailed it!
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Post by justinbunko on Jun 1, 2014 12:44:13 GMT -5
I would agree to change average to obp. I would also like to see qs over wins.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 13:35:12 GMT -5
phronesis I see your point of the equalizing Holds and Saves. But I think Saves, given our FA format, is the one catagory that is nearly impossible to fix in season if your closer goes down.
On a side note, personally, I think the two most worthless stats are Wins and then Saves (saves being a very close second). I mean if someone can pitch 1 inning and get a Win or in some cases less then an inning, that to me is ridiculous. Holds is a stat that regardless if your team wins or loses you still are awarded that stat.
Besides I think H+S awards a team with a deep bullpen diverse bullpen then someone that guesses correctly who the closer is. Even some closers that lose their 9th inning jobs are moved to setup roles so its a win/win for those teams that have already pre-built their team over the past 2 years for those two separate categories.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 13:37:24 GMT -5
I'm for the avg to obp…I'm torn on the w/qs just because you can get a lot of ugly quality starts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 13:40:04 GMT -5
If everyone can post their Paypal accounts I'm sure we can work out a $ amount that is acceptable to each team so that I can "convince" you that I'm right...
(Disclaimer - This statement in no way constitutes a bribe or a agreement to give actual money. Possible side effects of this statement include: bleeding of the ears, a sudden thirst, salad eating, sore feet, smelly toes, and an increase of belly button lint)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 14:59:00 GMT -5
I've said this before, but equalizing Holds and Saves isn't a good idea in my opinion. I could imagine somebody with 6 RP who accumulate Holds being a force, rather than having to actually battle it out in each category. Though this change might benefit me, specifically, I still like the idea of having a dominant Closer mean something (especially since I just made two trades this year to acquire dominant Closers!) The TB idea is a good one, but HR and TB really aren't the same thing. Maybe it's a better gauge of 'power' in an absolute sense, but guys like Mark Reynolds and Adam Dunn lose some of their value. I think having HR opens the door to cheaper options having a fantasy impact...after all, they are one of the three true outcomes. TB is usually dominated by the BEST players IRL--I think Trout and McCutchen lead the league last year, and I assume the rest of the list is dominated by the best of the best. HR at least allows a role player to have an impact. I'm for changing AVG to OBP. Completely. Not this year, maybe 2015, but definitely 2016 to give people a chance to change their strategy. Though I suspect most people wouldn't really change their strategy all that much. I mean, Choo becomes a monster instead of just a top 20 guy in a category. It would mitigate the 'chance' factor, which I'm all for, but there aren't many guys who would become more or less sought-after. Starlin Castro (and the like) loses a bit of value, but not much. Can we make a "Three true outcomes" category? If so can I retroactively draft the only one REAL "Three true outcomes" category sleeper and that man is Jack Cust? For you younger guys please feel free to read this quick excerpt from ESPN of the man, the myth, the legend: "Cust has homered in 4.3 percent of his plate appearances, he's walked in 19.4 percent of his plate appearances and he's struck out in 32.9 percent of his plate appearances, for a grand 3-TO percentage of 56.6, easily the highest that I've tracked for a player with more than just a brief taste of the majors." I think HRs is far from a "Cheap" category since most people here are chasing HRs at a premium "See Hosmer, Eric, also see Upton, BJ, and a few others who will remain nameless at this time to protect the innocent". I think HRs is the ultimate luck category if you are able to find cheap value. Because most known HR commodities go for a high price. Yes, yes, I understand "that is where strategy comes into play" and "do your research" and "clean your room". So let's take this a step further. Currently here are your top 10 HR leaders in order: 1. Nelson Cruz (20) 2. Encarnacion (18) 3. Stanton (16) T4. Jose Abreu (15) T4. Josh Donaldson (15) T6. Bautista (14) T6. Pujols (14) T6. Tulowitzki (14) T9. Victor Martinez (13) T9. Brandon Moss (13) T9. Jason Upton (13) Now lets look at the top 10 TB leaders in order: 1. Nelson Cruz (137) 2. Encarnacion (130) 3. Stanton (128) 4. Paul Goldschmidt (128) - (Btw he has -10 HRs which is tied for 20th) T5. Josh Donaldson (120) T5. Puig (120) - (Btw he has - 11 HRs which is tied for 15th) 7. Victor Martinez (119) T8. Tulowitzki (118) T9. Miguel Cabrera (115) - (Btw he has - 10 HRs which is tied for 20th) T9. Carlos Gomez (115) - - (Btw he has -11 HRs which is tied for 15th) The guys that were in the top 10 in HRs but not in TBs are: Jose Abreu (T-26th) Bautista (T-11th) Pujols (T-13th) Brandon Moss (T-18th) Justin Upton (T-15th) So unless I'm not seeing it, HR leaders is pretty close to indicative (except in the case of Jose Abreu) of TBs in most cases.
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saltman
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Post by saltman on Jun 1, 2014 16:19:41 GMT -5
I see your point. I guess the argument for TB in a league this deep is that it gives a bit of added value to guys who don't hit many HRs but hit for decent average and have some gap power. Also, it reflects the real life fact that not all hits are equal - a double or triple is more valuable than a single. But in standard roto there is no distinction
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 19:04:58 GMT -5
I see your point. I guess the argument for TB in a league this deep is that it gives a bit of added value to guys who don't hit many HRs but hit for decent average and have some gap power. Also, it reflects the real life fact that not all hits are equal - a double or triple is more valuable than a single. But in standard roto there is no distinction I'm all for the TBs... Sorry if my ramblings didn't make that more clear...
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phronesis
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Favorite Baseball Team: Atlanta Braves
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Post by phronesis on Jun 1, 2014 23:17:04 GMT -5
Here's the thing about TB, it's like Ks in terms of chasing the stat. HR are relatively rare, but TB are abundant. If someone wanted to make up ground in TB, they couldn't go bargain shopping. They'd have to get somebody who hit well for a good average and with pop. If somebody wanted to pick up 10-15 HR in a half season, they could go get Chris Carter or Brandon Hicks, throw him in the lineup and make up some ground. Your numbers look great and show that HR Leaders=TB leaders, but that is only one part of the equation. It's the fantasy owner's ability to affect a category.
In another league I was down 15 HR (12th place) to the 2nd place team (I always go for 2nd place in a category, not 1st), and wanted to make up the ground. I got Chris Carter and Hicks fell into my lap, now I'm in third. Boom. The Dude Affects. It would've taken me much longer if instead of 10 extra HR I needed 150 TB. I guess that's my point about role players meaning something. Adam Dunn cost 1.0 in this league, but he'll hit 30ish HR. That's a huge piece if I wanted him to be. I'm not so sure he'd have the same impact in TB.
Now that I'm down in SB, I'll probably play Yelich over Dunn the majority of the time, but that might change once Gordon catches me up--TB is just so cumulative, so huge, and who you pick up makes a smaller difference. Am I even owning anymore? Or am I just picking my team at the beginning and going with it?
HLD+S would amount to the same situation. Half the fun of 'making a run for it' is chasing stats, making trades, plugging in guys who you know might go 1-5 but they'll get that HR/SB. If I could just pick 6 RP at the beginning of the season and plug them in, then not have to worry about what their roles were, that'd be BORING. Cumulative stats take away chance, but chance brings a bit of fun to the game. Since we don't play, we get our kicks from plugging the right guys, finding favorable matchups, etc.
All this being said, I still like OBP over AVG, just because neither TB or AVG encapsulate BBs--which is completely lost on this format, even though it's essential to IRL Baseball.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 3:47:10 GMT -5
OK, there's a lot going on here. I imagine these discussions may continue, but once a point has been reached where anyone wants to make a considered proposal I would like the following:
1) If you want to propose a category change reply to this thread with a post that says "Proposal: Replace category X with category Y". 2) Before any category change proposal goes to vote I would like an indication that there is at least one other person supporting that change (otherwise a vote is a bit pointless). Another person should reply to the thread quoting the proposal (so that it shows in their own post), and just add 'Seconded' as their comment.
Once discussions die down then I don't see why we can't vote immediately. If any changes are passed then we'll have a follow-up vote to determine when to implement category changes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 6:48:22 GMT -5
Well what I will do is propose each catagory change separately if that is cool with wveryone.
Thanks...
(SIDE NOTE: I expect none of these to pass since I was not allowed to bribe anyone ahead of the votes)
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