Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 5:14:36 GMT -5
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miggitymatt
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Post by miggitymatt on Dec 3, 2014 11:31:15 GMT -5
I'll comment after the others have chimed in.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 12:51:21 GMT -5
Hmm, very interesting. There are a lot of earlier reports and all the posts I am finding seem to indicate the deal was completed prior to the 10:21pm time-stamped protect post.
Not sure twitter is our best source, but it is the official notice from the Dbacks: [a href="http://"][/a]
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bigfly73
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Post by bigfly73 on Dec 3, 2014 13:04:39 GMT -5
We had this problem in the other league a few times, and we said once it is posted by either of the real life teams as official you can no longer protect the prospect. I'd like to see what Dbacks has to say, but it looks like he was late.
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miggitymatt
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Post by miggitymatt on Dec 3, 2014 19:10:55 GMT -5
I knew this was close and expected Stephen to, either dispute or give me kudos for just beating the official trade announcement. I'm not sure why it took him 3 weeks?
I saved a screen shot of mobile Alerts on my phone. ESPN reported the trade at 10:25pm, MLB reported it at 10:31. Once I saw those I figured I was good to so I didn't bother looking for anymore announcements. I thought I could post the screen shot on the board but not sure how to, or that it would matter at this point. I also found an Official Press Release from the Dbacks but it doesn't have a time stamp. Here's a time stamp from 10:26pm Hellickson Roto page.
If the TTC feels I was too late, that's fine, I won't object. I would like to see something added to the League Constitution to clear up the grey area, though. I'm not sure if we can make it black and white, but something to help clear things up would be nice.
What makes the trade official? Team's twitter account, ESPN, MLB, Rotoworld, press release, other?
Do BOTH teams have to make an official announcement or just one?
Can anyone dispute a protect or can it only be one of the affected teams?
Are disputes decided by the TTC or Admins?
On a side note, I thought I remember one of the admins saying that it has to be an official team statement, so there's really no excuse that teams shouldn't be able to protect specs from trades, as long as their paying attention to daily news. I checked on the old board and couldn't find anything.
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bigfly73
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Post by bigfly73 on Dec 3, 2014 20:44:34 GMT -5
I do believe we discussed it as being once either team made an official announcement. Personally I think twitter is the most reliable source, it really is the go to for almost every beat writer in the MLB. I think once a twitter announcement is made that shows the trade is official, then that prospect(s) is property of the new team if unprotected. I would be surprised if it was announced anywhere else before twitter 1st, but we could say if it's announced officially at such and such and such site.
I think anyone could dispute a protect, and it would be up to the TTC that aren't affected by it to decide the final decision.
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bigfly73
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Post by bigfly73 on Dec 3, 2014 20:45:45 GMT -5
That should be such or such or such site, pick 3 sites and if any of them report as official, can no longer protect.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 21:12:54 GMT -5
I did some additional looking around and found the following time stamped info. MLB twitter feed reports deal at 10:10pm - MLB Roster Moves feed reports it at 10:18pm -
SB Nation article quotes Rays president Matt Silverman's thoughts on the trade at 10:20pm - www.draysbay.com/2014/11/14/7224153/jeremy-hellickson-traded-to-arizona-diamondbacksI understand where both owners are coming from in trying to literally protect their player assets. Looking at the reporting that I could find, it looks like the deal was announced as official by MLB and both teams prior to the protect post at 10:21pm. We obviously need to work to address this for any future instances by updating rule 7.6: The rule should be clarified to define the sources we will use to determine an official trade time.
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miggitymatt
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Post by miggitymatt on Dec 3, 2014 22:04:07 GMT -5
I think using Twitter as on official source is ok, but who's twitter?
-MLB -MLBRosterMoves -Team A -Team B -Any of the above?
Nice work on the additional time stamp info, Soosh.
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miggitymatt
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Post by miggitymatt on Dec 3, 2014 22:10:34 GMT -5
I'll remove Velazquez from my roster. I'll make an edit on my roster moves thread, noting that it was disputed and TTC ruled in favor of the dispute.
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bigfly73
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Post by bigfly73 on Dec 3, 2014 22:23:04 GMT -5
I think using Twitter as on official source is ok, but who's twitter? -MLB -MLBRosterMoves -Team A -Team B -Any of the above? Nice work on the additional time stamp info, Soosh. Yeah I think any of the above, a source will usually retweet the official post. Almost no beat writer/ main writer will say it's official until it has been announced as such by one team. Not EVERY team has a super active feed, so yes we would need to specify some other websites as alternatives. And come up with the exact time window, maybe a 10 minute window, an hour. I'm not all about every team having to protect tons of prospects in fear of losing one, I just lost Barreto and was upset about it. I'm more in favor of giving an hour window to the team with the prospect to protect them. Would also encourage more activity by owners, to stay alert.
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bigfly73
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Post by bigfly73 on Dec 3, 2014 22:25:11 GMT -5
I'll remove Velazquez from my roster. I'll make an edit on my roster moves thread, noting that it was disputed and TTC ruled in favor of the dispute. I'm not sure we've officially declared you lost him. I guess we are going on the time stamp rule, but we really don't have a rule. Which was an oversight because I knew of this problem from the previous league, I really thought we had it covered.
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miggitymatt
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Post by miggitymatt on Dec 3, 2014 22:46:03 GMT -5
It seems like you and Soosh agree that I was late protecting him. Truthfully, after seeing 4-5 time stamps before 10:21, I agree. I don't use twitter so I never saw any of those links before today. I'm just glad we are using this to clarify the rule for future purposes. The "grace window" is an interesting idea. A hour feels like too much, to me, though. That's for admins to figure out .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 22:53:07 GMT -5
Right, I don't think we have a firm decision on this and it might be best to get more feedback from other TTC members before deciding on this case, as well as amendments to the rule.
I agree that an hour window would be a good addition to the rule to encourage activity and "reward" them by protecting a traded prospect in that hour.
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Turbanator
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Post by Turbanator on Dec 4, 2014 2:03:33 GMT -5
I'm curious to hear if the Brits & think they're at a disadvantage in these scenarios due to the time difference. Clubs obviously operate on their local time schedules, but any evening/night transactions or deals happen in the middle of the night for those 6 hours ahead. And Eric, aren't you based out of the middle east, so that's what, 10-12 hours off?
If that's the case, we could make it a longer window, or explore other options.
I haven't had an opportunity to go through and personally confirm timestamps, but it would looks like Velazquez was protected after he was officially moved IRL.
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